Dear readers, we are pleased to present in this article an interview with one of the founding members of one of the leading bands of Progressive Rock music. Please welcome Judge Smith of Van der Graaf Generator.
Hi Judge, it’s a pleasure to have you with us. How are you?
“I’m fine and dandy, thank you very much.“
Can you tell us how the idea for “Requiem Mass” was born and what inspired you in 1973?
“Well, my band Heebalob had failed a couple of years earlier, and I had recently done an album of demos with the help of Peter Hammill, who was exploring the techniques of home recording. There had also been the adventure of the Free Art Research Trio, the ‘free music,’ improv, avant-garde noise band I had with Heebalob partner Maxwell Hutchinson (while
working for him in his architects’ practice) which culminated in appearances at Ronnie Scott’s and the ICES 72 music festival at the Roundhouse. So I was just thrashing about for a new project. I was full of the values of Prog Rock because of my time with the Van der Graaf Generator, and we believed in the ‘long song’, grand musical themes and weighty subject matter. I was also very fond of classical music of the dramatic sort, Stravinsky, Orff, Holst and so on, so I eventually hit on the idea of a Rock Choral Requiem Mass. However, it’s so long ago now, that I don’t remember what was going on in my little head at the time, but it was certainly a pretty mad idea.“
As a self-taught musician, how did you approach the process of composing this piece, especially with your method of verbally dictating the notes to the arranger?
“I’ve always been able to imagine music and hear it in my head in great detail. So I would sing the tunes onto little Dictaphone tapes, write down lists of note names rather than actual notation, and I worked out chord sequences using an autoharp and a modified guitar. I can’t play guitar but I rigged this one with three strings tuned to a Major Triad and the other three strings tuned to a Minor Triad, so I could find every Major and Minor chord just by sliding my finger up and down the neck. So there was some sort of framework for poor Michael Brand to try to understand, but mostly it was me singing the stuff; wailing and crooning at him. Amazingly, when it was written down and he bashed it out on the piano it
was exactly as I imagined it. Michael did this very difficult job incredibly well.“
“Requiem Mass” combines elements of Classical Music, Rock, and massive choral sections. How did you decide to blend these genres, and what message did you want to convey through this fusion?
“There’s no real message. I just wanted to convey what I’ve always wanted tried to convey, a pleasant feeling in the listener that’s exciting, emotionally uplifting and physically engaging. I thought of the four sections of the choir and the baritone soloist as additional instruments in a Rock Band, and used them accordingly. I didn’t have any conceptual agenda or sub-text.“
What significance does the medieval text ‘Dies Irae’ hold for you, and how does it connect with the rock music you composed?
“The trochaic meter of the poem and the way each of its verses consists of three rhymed lines gives it a wonderful momentum and a very ‘four-on-the-floor’ rock beat, even before you get on to the great death-metal imagery. I thought it was just begging for a heavy shuffle or boogie treatment. It’s a climactic part of the requiem, but it seems to be just one
of the high points, at least according to people who like the album.“
Why was this project not staged immediately after its composition? What were the main challenges in realizing it during the 1970s?
“Well, money, or the lack of it. I had no record company or manager or agent to help me, and I am not one of those people who are good at hustling my own work. I am a hopeless salesman. I always take no for an answer. Possibilities for recording or performance would occasionally appear, shimmering like a mirage, only for them to disappear again. One choir-master was very keen, but then suddenly he was sent to prison. On another occasion, a famous and fashionable London church seemed about to take the plunge, but they wanted me to dedicate the work to a recently deceased political activist who I hadn’t heard of, and I demurred, foolishly perhaps. A couple of years later I had another band and, with ‘The Imperial Storm Band’, we recorded a stripped-down ‘band-only’ version of the ‘Dies Irae’ as a demo (issued many years later on my discontinued CD ‘Democrazy’) and performed it as a number at clubs and gigs around London. But the band foundered with the advent of Punk, and the Requiem went back into hibernation. Then in the mid 80s, Lloyd-Webber put out his own ‘Requiem’, which totally killed any commercial interest in my version for years.“
How did it feel to have to set aside this work for so many years?
“Well, not good. I thought it had a lot of my best tunes in it, but I resisted the urge to re-use them in other songs, which I have done with other ‘failed’ projects, in the belief that something would eventually turn-up.“
In 2016, Requiem Mass was revised by Ricardo Odriozola. How was working with him on this revision?
“That was in 2009. The CD came out in 2016, so there was another seven years to go before I was able to raise the money to record and release the thing. I had already worked with Ricardo on other pieces so there was a good working relationship in place. He’s an amazing person, a brilliant classical musician, but also a lover of Rock Music, and he’s enabled me to explore areas of music I would never have dreamed of entering. I had sent Michael’s pencilled score to Ricardo in the post, and he had transcribed it onto a score-writing program, so there was actually something already there for us to work with. In the intervening thirty-five years I had picked up quite a bit more about music, although I still
can’t play an instrument, so the process was not quite as bizarre as it was when I was working with Michael Brand. However, it was actually a bit spooky. There had never been a demo recording of Michael’s original transcription, so some bits I had actually forgotten about. It was like raising the dead. There was also one ‘movement’ that I had never been
happy with, and I had written a new piece back in the day as a substitute, but there had not been the need to get that down on in music notation at the time, since there seemed to be no chance then of getting it performed or recorded. So now we were able to get that new section written down, and the whole thing examined in detail, polished up and improved in places.“
What was it like finally seeing your work recorded and released after such a long time?
“Great! It came out even better than I had imagined, and I loved it, and still love it. It cost me a lot of money but it was well worth it.“
How do you feel about “Requiem Mass” being performed live for the first time after 50 years?
“I’m frankly amazed. I thought that, once the huge amount of work of recording the Requiem for the 2016 CD was over, that would be the end of it. I’m thrilled and delighted that it’s now actually going to be heard live. I had better say that this is happening on July 12th at 7.30pm at Holy Sepulchre Church, Holborn Viaduct, London EC1A 2DQ, with tickets available from https://www.ticketsource.co.uk/hertfordshirechorus/t-avndamk Book now, folks!“
What are your expectations for this performance with the Hertfordshire Chorus, orchestra, and Rock band?
“I’m happy to say that I am not involved in the preparation and rehearsal for the project. That’s all in the hands of the Hertfordshire Chorus and their wonderful conductor David Temple MBE. He conducted the performance that is on the CD, and I am completely confident that he will pull it off magnificently.“
What do you think Requiem Mass represents today, half a century after its creation?
“Good Heavens! I suppose it actually is half a century ago… Maybe it just represents the idea that a good piece of music won’t die and won’t date, and will eventually rise up into the light of day and get a breath of air.“
Are there elements of your work that still resonate with contemporary audiences in your opinion?
“I have no idea. I hope so, but you’ll have to ask some contemporary audiences.“
Your role in Van der Graaf Generator was pivotal during the early 70s. How did your experience with the band influence your approach to composing Requiem Mass?
“Really, it’s a question of quality control. For a long time, I would look at my tunes and say ‘Would this be good enough for Hammill? Would this be good enough for Van der Graaf? Would this be good enough for Zappa?’ And if it wasn’t, I would have to do more work on it.“
You are a co-founder of Van der Graaf Generator, which was known for its innovative and experimental sound within the Progressive Rock genre. How do you think the band’s legacy has shaped modern progressive music, and what do you see as its lasting impact?
“Heaven knows! Maybe just the idea and the attitude that… ‘This is the song. This is how it goes. If you don’t understand the music, that’s too bad, and if you don’t understand the words, that’s too bad. But this is the song, and this is how it goes.’“
Looking back, what are some of your most memorable moments or achievements with Van der Graaf Generator that continue to inspire you today?
“Not achievements, but some moments come to mind. Me and Peter supporting a grumpy Tyrannosaurus Rex, me and Peter singing songs to John Peel, hanging out with Spanky and Our Gang, and with Reparata and the Delrons, bizarre adventures with Graham Bond, singing songs in Hyde Park to Lionel Stander (who wanted photos with us)… Strange days!“
Do you have any future projects or ideas you’d like to share with fans and new listeners?
“There is something new, being released on 4th July. ‘The Overstayer’ is my fourth Songstory, and, at 18 minutes, it’s the shortest. It’s scored for pipe organ, saxophones and vocals. Robert Pettigrew, the organist, is a classically-trained keyboardist, arranger and theatrical Musical Director who I first worked with in 1976, and is the star pianist on my 2023 album ‘The Trick of The Lock’. David Jackson is playing his full armoury of multiple saxophones, flutes and whistles. His daughter, Dorie Jackson, who shares vocals with me, is one of the most extraordinary female singers I have heard in recent years (as can be heard on her new solo album ‘Stupid Says Run’.) My piece tells the story of ‘The Overstayer’ of the title, an unemployed head teacher in her own, un-named, country who comes to the UK on a tourist visa, determined to remain as an illegal ‘overstayer’. I have attempted to handle this politically sensitive storyline as delicately and even-handedly as I can, with her migration seen in the context of the flow of displaced peoples drifting inexorably over the centuries from East to West. I believe that the music is unusual and memorable with a subtle flavour of other cultures, and the combination of organ and saxophones is at times reminiscent of early Van der Graaf Generator. Despite my
dispassionate treatment of the story, the overall effect of the piece has proved to be surprisingly emotional and moving. At 18mins, ‘The Overstayer’ is, I believe, too short to release economically as a physical CD, so, for the first time, my label ‘Masters Of Art’ will only be releasing the piece as a download on the digital streaming site Bandcamp, https://judgesmith1.bandcamp.com/, but it will naturally come with full artwork and libretto.“
I thank Judge for the interview, wishing him all the best for the premiere and for the continuation of his artistic career.
“Thank you Prog Rock Journal, it’s been a pleasure!“
Judge Smith’s “Requiem Mass” will receive its live premiere on Saturday 12 July 2025, at the Holy Sepulchre Church, Holborn, London EC1. Tickets are available HERE
“The Overstayer” will be released via Bandcamp on July 04, 2025.
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